The Humanist Hour #75: America’s War on Sex

So let’s listen to “Marty” and not endure the SMALL TALK!

Hey AHA MEMBER, Marty’s segment officially begins at 6:50 so you can skip over our “witty banter” / small talk and jump in there if you’d like. Thanks for listening!

So, Marty Klein spends several minutes trivializing the experiences of women who have talked about being sexually harassed and claiming that they’re just trying to cast those poor socially awkward guys as criminals. He also claims that feminists who stand up for those women are opposed to anyone asking a question they don’t know the answer to (the fiends!) and think women need to be protected from normal human interaction. Then, what does he offer as his common-sense solution? A policy saying that there will be no physical coercion, that you should leave someone alone and not persist after they’ve said “no,” and that there will be staff available at all times to enforce the policy! Amazeballs! Who ever would have thought of that? Oh yeah, those radical, fun-hating feminists, that’s who. The ones who have been proposing that all along.

This part of the interview was utterly infuriating. I would not ever seek sex counseling (or any other counseling) from this man, because I would not trust him to be listening to what I was actually saying.

I agree with Dr. Klein that the guy was probably a socially inept clumsy man. He also commented that women should be able to say “that feels like crap, stop.” Perhaps he did not view RW’s video, that is precisely what she did – she commented hey guys don’t do this. The reaction to her video was surprising; many more socially inept guys and people came out of the woodwork – clueless about the etiquette or faux pas of approaching women in enclosed or isolated area. Dr. Klein also seems naive to the fact that women are sharing advice of which “big name” conference speaker that they should keep away from. Yes, men at the top are also “socially inept boys.”

Dr. Klein may be considered an expert, but the bottom line is that RW did exactly what he said should be done. It
reveals that he is commenting on something he clearly has not looked
into thoroughly. I would guess that he has never experienced feeling a lack of safety walking in certain areas…looking over his shoulder to see if anyone is around…walking faster to get to a safer area…changing your posture and being on guard. He, a 5’1″ man, if healthy, is still stronger than me at 5’8″.

This comment brought down the entire show.

One of the best interviews you’ve ever done. Thanks so much for sharing Dr. Klein with all of us.

Marty, thanks for mansplaining the situation. You need to check out Pamela Gay’s speech at TAM 2012 (http://www.starstryder.com/2012/07/15/make-the-world-better/). Here is the relevant part for you.

“As an astronomer, at professional conferences, I’ve randomly had my
tits and ass grabbed and slapped by men in positions of power and by
creeps who drank too much. This is part of what it means to be a woman
in science. With the creeps I generally hold my own and get them to back
off like I would with any asshole in a bar. With the people in power… I
commiserate with the other women as we share stories of what has been
grabbed by whom. I know as I say this that it sounds unbelievable – and
how can we report the unbelievable and expect to be believed?

This isn’t to say women shouldn’t go into astronomy. It is just to
say that in the after hours events, you sometimes need to keep your butt
to the wall and your arms crossed over your chest.

Some of you have to have power to stop discrimination and harassment.
It pisses me off to know that as strong as I am, I know I’m not
powerful enough to name names and be confident that I’ll still have a
career.”

Learn what you’re talking about before you dismiss sexual harassment as being asked something you are “uncomfortable with”. Also please read Schrodinger’s Rapist (http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-schrodinger%E2%80%99s-rapist-or-a-guy%E2%80%99s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/) It begins:

“Now, you want to become acquainted with a woman you see in public. The
first thing you need to understand is that women are dealing with a set
of challenges and concerns that are strange to you, a man. To begin
with, we would rather not be killed or otherwise violently assaulted.”

You’ll find that we don’t feel uncomfortable, we feel fear. Bear in mind that, depending on who is doing the statistics one in four to one in six women have experienced rape or attempted rape and 40-60% have been and are sexually harassed. If you have difficulty understanding this or just discount /do not believe this, you should find another profession. Changing the definition of sexual harassment won’t reduce its prevalence.

It’s incredibly disheartening to hear Klein trivialize Watson’s experience in Dublin, and mischaracterize the definition of sexual harassment (saying that it’s only quid pro quo, but not hostile environment), and mischaracterize what good people at Freethought Blogs and Skepchick have been asking for in a conference anti-harassment policy.

Women have been telling aggressive harassers “that feels like crap, stop it!” for generations. Mr. Klein, it’s time for you to stop putting the burden on targets/victims.

I came to see comments, and thanks for them. I thought I was hearing a serious humanity fail – sure, some lip service to “power imbalance bad”, but a complete lack of understanding of what is actually going on. (not that I really understand it. Empathy can only go so far in overcoming privilege and enculturation)

Hey, Marty. Thanks for making it harder for me to get women to come to my local Humanist group. Way to reinforce the stereotype.

yes ………i felt martys concept of ……….”you are not a child …….you can say i don`t like that”
you are a grown up. Say no, this is what adults do. Thankyou marty.